虞海

Language

Hi, please do NOT add foreign (non-Mongolian) language text to articles here. If you want something to be added and can't translate it yourself, please find someone to translate it for you before adding it. In particular, there is no need to copy text from other language Wikipedia projects, as it can always be translated directly from the original site . --Latebird (яриа) 18:13, 9 Наймдугаар сар 2008 (UTC)

I hear there's a Template called Template:Request translation. Why I can't find it in Mongolian Wikipedia? By the way, why can't I find Tradition Mongolian Script conversion system in Mongolian Wikipedia? All Mongolian people in Inner Mongolia use Tradition Mongolian Script (follow their ancester), they need a Tradition Mongolian Script conversion system just like Han Chinese need a Traditional-Simplified Chinese character conversion system.

Traditional Mongolian Script Alphabet: ᠠ ᠪ ᠼ ᠳ ᠡ ᠹ ᠭ ᠬ ᠢ ᠵ ᠺ ᠯ ᠮ ᠨ ᠥ ᠫ ᠴ ᠷ ᠰ ᠲ ᠦ ᠤ ᠣ ᠱ ᠶ ᠽ ᠂ ᠃

Traditional Mongolian Script Alphabet: ᠠᠪᠼᠳᠡᠹᠭᠬᠢᠵᠺᠯᠮᠨᠥᠫᠴᠷᠰᠲᠦᠤᠣᠱᠶᠽ᠂᠃

ᠮᠣᠩᠭᠣᠯ (Vertical Text)

--虞海 10:30, 10 Наймдугаар сар 2008 (UTC)

The Mongolian Wikipedia is different from ther English one (or the Commons) in many aspects, so you can't automatically expect the same templates to exist in both places. Policies and guidelines may also differ in quite a few details.

I agree it would be nice to have a Wikipedia version in the traditional Mongolian script as well (with a tab at the top of the page to switch back and forth). Unfortunately, there are quite a few practical problems to overcome first.

• There are not enough active editors who can actually write it. This is necessary, because there is no straightforward conversion possible between traditional and cyrillic. The ortography is much too different, and they are also used for different dialects nowadays. You can't adequately compare that with traditional and simplified Chinese characters, which primarily differ just in graphical representation.
• There's no working standard to write it on computers. Since you're trying to add information about Unicode to the article, you're probably ready to disagree about this. But here's the explanation: The standard as defined by the Unicode consortium is very difficult to implement. Currently, only Microsoft Vista is able to render traditional Mongolian Unicode text correctly. It is not entirely clear if they do that by using some non-standard trickery or if they actually follow the standard. In either case, the net result is that many people are unable to read and write the script online.

Unfortunately, as long as those two issues are in the way, I don't see a very realistic chance of a Wikipedia project using the traditional Mongolian script. --Latebird (яриа) 12:26, 10 Наймдугаар сар 2008 (UTC)

I agree with your main idea. However, there's still something I need to say:

• There are enough active editors who can actually write it. At least, the other days when I went to Inner Mongolia, every Mongolian people I met has the ability to read and write traditional Mongolian script. One taxi driver told me: "In your eye, all the Mongolian character is similar so that when you keep a distance from several traditional Mongolian scripts you could not distinguish them from each other but for us they're totally different."
• I am using Windows XP and with a simple patch I downloaded from Peking University BBS it armed my computer with traditional Mongolian, Tibetan and Uyghur script IME and displayer. Unicode is a working standard. You you think it won't be working, see Incubator:Wp/vi-nom. It's Vietnamese written in Chu Nom, Chu Nom is in Unicode-ExtB and also needing extra patch. As for different dialects issue, I do also agree if we build a independent traditional Mongolian script in En:Wikimedia Incubator.
• In total, the most important thing is to mobilise Mongolian people in Inner Mongolia.

--虞海 07:20, 11 Наймдугаар сар 2008 (UTC)

I actually had written a reply, but apparently didn't click often enough to really post it... Of course there are many people writing this script, but I don't know if many of them are active Wikipedia editors. So you're saying that there are two (2) operating systems where the script works somehow, none of which is installed on my computer. Lets just hope that this situation will improve soon. In any case, starting an incubator project would be the first step to test if there is enough personal and technical support. If that happens to be successful enough, it may be integrated here as a "variant", similar to how it is done on zhwiki. --Latebird (яриа) 07:34, 13 Наймдугаар сар 2008 (UTC)

I'll reply, but surf this first: ulaaq.com. --虞海 14:14, 14 Наймдугаар сар 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, in the traditional version, I only see question marks... --Latebird (яриа) 11:16, 15 Наймдугаар сар 2008 (UTC)

I know, the Cyrillic Mongolian version provide you an IME (on the right side there's an advertisement), it has a English interface but you must install it in a Chinese interface. It has many good feather (compare to Microsoft version) but there's also some partial-uncompatible thing in it. I'm testing it. Someday I'll give you an introduce about it and now what you could do is browse the Cyrillic version and wait me. Thanks for your help. Later gator! --07:56, 16 Наймдугаар сар 2008 (UTC)

ᠰ

Well, I'm not the person you need to convince of anything. Talk to the incubator folks if you want to start a test wiki. --Latebird (яриа) 08:51, 16 Наймдугаар сар 2008 (UTC)

Got it. But I'm trying to find somebody for help. --虞海 09:25, 16 Наймдугаар сар 2008 (UTC)

87.184.97.23

hey man where did you download the windows XP patch? If you simply mention "there is a patch" you omit that the download page is probably not in English.... at least I didn't find it after hours of searching. Actually I run Vista in VMware on my XP notebook ONLY for writing with the Vista-IME.

having Mongolian script in XP you need to upgrade the system fonts with newer versions from the free beta of Windows 7 or from Vista. XP hasn't characters in Unicode 0x1800-0x18aa, they're missing. Vista has also Mongolian Baiti font and the IME.

Any UTF8 capable database system like MySQL can store them, and any UTF8 capable browser can display (if proper fonts are installed) and write (if proper IME is installed). I have already tested this with cyrillic Mongolian where the Ө and Ү characters come from bulgarian or greek cyrillic.

Unsigned comment by 87.184.97.23: this

Method 1:

1. Download the Tibetan script patch here or here;
2. Install it;
3. You'll find that Mongolian patch is combined with it.

Method 2:

1. Tiwce patched edition possibly with KB929763 correction.

---

Method 3:

1. Never using Microsoft, using Ming'antu "Unicode?". (seems a junk - it's also PUA Unicode)

Method 4:

1. Using the de facto international standard. En:Menksoft IMEs

--虞海 15:12, 22 Гуравдугаар сар 2009 (UTC)

Ms Mongolian script is unstable. [1] --虞海 15:15, 22 Гуравдугаар сар 2009 (UTC)

Interesting work.--虞海 05:45, 23 Гуравдугаар сар 2009 (UTC)